Hans device & arm restraints
#11
Hello

Here are two interesting web links regarding safety devices. It is interesting to note that whilst I find these two sites specific about certain products, the foam collar is not mentioned at all. I have only found reference to the foam collar as an additional component "WHILST WEARING A HANS DEVICE" purely for comfort!

http://www.circletrack.com/safety/index.html
http://www.advancedfire.com/front1.html

I dug out an old (2007) Demon Tweeks catalogue and sure enough the foam collar is shown there. It would appear that the OMP and Sparco varieties have some form of an FIA logo on them. Now, to what level did the FIA endorse them to, as they have varying levels of approval to their standards as any standards authority does! In addition to this, has the FIA endorsed the foam collars of these manufacturers purely based on the design of the specific manufacturers product and restricted it's endorsement to certain levels of certain disciplines of the sport? I dont know the answer to that. It is very interesting to see the amount of different head restraint products available in the US in varying price ranges. The Advanced fire website features a good explanation of these different options. Have a look and enjoy the read!
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#12
Here is an interesting little clip showing a side by side side test with and without a HANS device.

http://english.schroth.com/racing/katego...=HANSVideo
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#13
While I am confident better minds than mine are responsible for the introduction of the mandatory hand restraints in Caterham racing in the UK, my personal experience of these garnered from my participation at the Caterham Festival at Donnington Park couple of years back left me unconvinced as to the net benefit that these are supposed to bring to overall safety. Clearly, these are intended to restrain your arms / hands so that they cannot extend beyond the safety of the roll-cage in the event of the car rolling or becoming involved in a collision. However, the manner in which these restraints are tethered by a loop through which the lap straps of the safety harness pass makes far more difficult an emergency exit from the car in the event of a real or potential fire. On releasing the safety harness buckle, the hand restraints foul on the lap strap buckles and, depending on the design of the safety harness, around the buckle lock itself. Releasing these fouled straps is, of course, made doubly difficult by the very fact that they limit, intentionally, free movement of the hands and arms. Happily, I discovered this problem not in an attempt to escape a burning wreck but through the otherwise simple business of trying to do a driver change - a process substantially slowed by the task of freeing the lap strap loops of the hand restraints. When considered in the light of Peter Little's well documented experience in a burning Seven, I still believe that anything that compromises one's ability to get quickly out and clear of the car in an emergency does not represent an overall improvement on safety.
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#14
[size=3]Yes James, I have to agree with you about acessability, be that getting in or out of the car. I have often sat and thought just how quickly I would be able to extract myself from my 7 with the mandatory 6 point "Caterham Style" roll cages that we are now stipulated to install on the Class A & B cars. What if my car should land in some precarious position and my extracation is hampered by the proverbial "Jungle Gym" that I have found myself within!This must be even more comprehensive in a car such as a Wesbank V8 where you have to exit through the drivers window. In fact, one night in a Northcliff based workshop a couple of fellow racers had a competition to see just how fast we could get in and out of the 6 point roll cage now manadtory. Unfortunately there was some amber liquid floating about so I cant really take the results seriously but the end result was not great and that was without the use of belts! So I guess the addition of arm restraints potentially will complicate the extraction process and time thereof even further! The choice at the end of the day is yours until such a time that a higher authority deems it a necessity in our cars. MSA obviously feels that it is a necessity in oval track cars and as a result has become mandatory there. From my own personal perspective, I have always been told from when I raced bikes in the 70's "If youve got safety gear - Use it!" I use my hands to eek out a survival on a daily basis and god forbid I should lose a hand or an arm from being crushed whilst in a roll during an event. How many people would suddenly say to me "I told you so?" Let alone the loss of future income. The only possibility for me personally I believe is to mount the restraints in the best possible location that works for me and regularly practise my extracation so that one day if I should experience a fire or some nasty scenario that would require a very swift departure , my instincts will take over and I will hopefully be in one piece.
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#15
During our last event at Kyalami, I was invited to spend some time with the marshals at turn 2.
I had a discussion with the marshal in charge of that specific post, and he remembered Charles Moore's accident at that corner very well.
He pointed out that they (marshals) are in fact very concerned about our roll cages in the event a driver is unconscious or seriously hurt and needs to be extracted by the marshals. Given that most of us are a fair bit bigger and heavier that your average F1 driver, it will take more than one seriously strong marshal to get you out if you are unable to assist.
Our roll cages were made mandatory after Hendrik and Johan’s incident when one car was humping the other from the side.
Which is more dangerous and how to we decide which incident is more likely to occur?
Many drivers commented that they feel a lot safer and more confident with the roll cage.
Perhaps we should arrange an exercise with the marshals to test their ability to get an unconscious driver out of a class A/B car vs a class C car ?



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#16
During our last event at Kyalami, I was invited to spend some time with the marshals at turn 2.
I had a discussion with the marshal in charge of that specific post, and he remembered Charles Moore's accident at that corner very well.
He pointed out that they (marshals) are in fact very concerned about our roll cages in the event a driver is unconscious or seriously hurt and needs to be extracted by the marshals. Given that most of us are a fair bit bigger and heavier that your average F1 driver, it will take more than one seriously strong marshal to get you out if you are unable to assist.
Our roll cages were made mandatory after Hendrik and Johan’s incident when one car was humping the other from the side.
Which is more dangerous and how to we decide which incident is more likely to occur?
Many drivers commented that they feel a lot safer and more confident with the roll cage.
Perhaps we should arrange an exercise with the marshals to test their ability to get an unconscious driver out of a class A/B car vs a class C car ?
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#17
I started racing with a roll cage before it became mandatory and I wouldn't dream of racing without one.

When my (well suppose now it Lauren's!) car was still used on the road I kept the cage on because it made me feel a lot safer.

Do we have any volunteers that would like to be forcibly removed from their cars by several eager marshalls? 8-[
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#18
I reckon they should start with Danie Boshoff!!
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#19
After Tim Clamp's accident at Phakisa this weekend I believe that the intial point made in this thread has some merit! I also note that MSA's Dr VanNiekerk has not come back to Paul regarding this discussion, please correct me if I am wrong. We cant afford to turn a blind eye to safety!!!
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#20
De Ja Vu. This whole post needs a complete re-read by TLR competitors. Note it was started in 2009!
If you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything at any time, and you would achieve nothing - Margaret Thatcher

It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. Noel Coward

Please dont tell my mother I race cars! She thinks I am a piano player in a whorehouse! Actually I'm a jack of all trades and a master of none!
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